ToThePointe Meets Hofesh Shechter

Like it or loathe it, Hofesh Shechter’s choreography gets people talking. Whether it’s his politics, his choreography or his music, people are always drawn to talk about him. It must be rewarding in a way to be a person who sparks such debate, who can cause people to spend hours deliberating over the meaning behind his works. I happen to like his work and after our interview, I like him as a person even more. There’s something very open and approachable about Hofesh that made me feel I could have spoken with him for hours and hours. I imagine meeting him in a small pub, beakers of ale being brought to the table, whilst poets, artists, musicians and choreographers all surround him and discuss politics and the world today. In reality our conversation is a lot less bohemian as travel commitments force a phone rather than a beaker of ale between us. I was a bit unsure how our interview would go. Someone who sparks debate may do so because they knowingly want to so what if he was confrontational, arrogant or difficult? I was picturing Mariah style diva qualities. Someone who would enjoy being difficult for difficulty’s sake. Hofesh couldn’t be further from my imaginings. He was more than happy to talk to me and made me feel like I could ask him anything which I appreciated especially when teetering on the political side of things. He’s also very interesting and cares deeply about his art form and those who view it.

Hofesh Shechter, copyright Hugo Glendinning

Hofesh was raised in Israel and it was here that he was exposed to dance. I ask him how he first got into the art form and why he was so drawn to it. “In a way I made a decision to dance more seriously when I was twelve. Up until then I was dancing once a week at primary school but when I was twelve I joined a youth folk dance company and that’s where it started.” I ask him why he enjoyed dancing and he tells me that boosting his confidence had a lot to do with it. “I found the social aspect appealing but I was also quite uncomfortable with my body and I was quite shy so working with others made me feel more confident and I became more relaxed around people. I knew there was something more in dance, a layer of expression maybe, that I couldn’t find in any other art form. It’s so weird and different from speaking and I was attracted to that.” Throughout our interview, I find Hofesh surprisingly introverted and a little self-conscious so I’m not surprised when he tells me that he drew himself away from performing. “I didn’t feel fulfilled artistically or emotionally and I felt that my own stuff was the only way I could be satisfied. I was curious about composing and choreography pretty early on, I was dancing but unsure if that’s what I wanted to be and I felt quite torn between music and dance. I didn’t feel like I was a natural performer, so I took the leap and tried choreography. It was quite an abrupt start and I decided to just stop dancing and give choreography a year and here I am.”

As Hofesh stepped into the realm of choreography, he delved deep into this new world of creativity and imagination. I ask him if he can describe his process or what it’s like to choreograph but I can hear through chuckling smiles that the answer to that question is not black and white. “Choreography is a fragile and sensitive thing and it’s hard to approach. Each creation is very different in how it is created but the idea is to allow everything to happen, every emotion and every thought, and then narrow all of it down. That’s how I focus. I allow a lot of ideas, images, sounds, conversations and movements to form a bank and then I start to capture it all. I have a lot of fear from my end and it’s a chaotic process but with great results.” I find Hofesh very honest and it’s really refreshing to hear him speak frankly about his work. “I’m influenced by everything but that robs me of being original. I don’t think my work is unique because it’s taken from so many different places.” I’m impressed with this honesty. Whatever we do, we are often reluctant to admit that we might pinch certain things from our peers, but here is Hofesh telling me plainly that it’s part of the process and something he seems proud of. I ask him more about what influences his work “I’m influenced by choreographers such as Forsythe or Ek and cinema influences me a lot too. I’m influenced by what’s happening in the world today and who is around me and I try to use that to create work.”

Hofesh Shechter Company in 'Grand Finale', copyright Rahi Rezvani

I believe very strongly that art should spark debate and that artists have a responsibility to also reflect their current times. I’m not saying all art should replace fantasy, but an acknowledgement of what’s happening in the world should be welcome from time to time. What baffles me is how some will inevitably judge Hofesh because he is Israeli. I’ve read that Batsheva dance company have dealt with protests outside of their performances purely because they are an Israeli dance group. I’d understand more if it was in protest for the art, but I was surprised to read that it was based just on their background. I ask Hofesh if he has ever experienced this type of protest but he tells me luckily he hasn’t and that his audience in the UK are generally supportive. “We haven’t endured anything like that in the UK. I don’t think Batsheva sends any other message other than love so it’s a shame.” This leads me to ask how he is received in Israel. “My work is received very well in Israel but we haven’t been back since 2008. I would like to go back but it hasn’t worked out yet due to dates and financing. When we were there we played at the Opera House and I was incredibly nervous because I was coming back home and Israelis can be quite judgemental but they were extremely supportive and the people seemed proud.”

I’m intrigued to find out more about his audience. How does he deal with the questions or negative reviews? “At times I want the audience to like the work but not at the price of me stopping what I want to do. I try to be as honest to myself as I can and stay real. I am concerned about my audience, of course I am. I make it all for them, so that they can experience something interesting, entertaining, challenging and emotional. I try to discover it all with my audience because I don’t make dance for myself, I make it for them. It’s not about me.” I’m quite surprised by this response. I’ve found that many creators and artists often reject their audiences and try to convince themselves that everything they do is purely for them. Today’s news is tomorrows chip paper they must think, but here we have a renowned choreographer telling me that his work is made for an audience, something for them to enjoy. It’s a refreshing take on creating art. Hofesh does tell me a few times though that he will always stay true to himself and not create for an audience with the risk of selling out. “I like the different reactions I get. I’ll have someone say how powerful and hopeful my work is and then someone else will say it’s too harsh and I like hearing that rounded reaction.” And what of those who complain about the music? Hofesh regularly uses loud music in his pieces, often composed by himself, but this is often too much for some. I know my mum finds it difficult sometimes, but maybe that’s because she didn’t grow up attending 90s acid house music parties. “Some like the music to be loud but others, especially a dance audience, feel it’s too loud. I wonder whether I push it a bit far sometimes. I don’t want to upset people or alienate them and I don’t want them to miss out because it’s loud. I’m getting old and soft now so maybe I’ll make it quieter!”

My conversation with Hofesh took part before President Trump’s decision to crown Jerusalem Israel’s capital city. I would have liked to have asked what Hofesh thought about this but maybe we don’t need to hear his views as he would prefer we view them through his choreography. You can’t really talk to Hofesh without discussing politics as it is so evident in his works. Themes of immigration, isolation and justice flow throughout and much of this has come from his upbringing in Israel. “Being from Israel has influenced me a lot”, Hofesh tells me. “Political troubles in Israel affected my way of thinking from very early on and growing up somewhere like that you are made aware very quickly who owns what and the importance which surrounds this. I therefore grew up asking a lot of questions and doubting everything. When you watch ‘Grand Finale’ and those moving slabs on stage, you can’t help but see walls, whether they are Palestinian walls or Mexican – the list goes on. It’s had a massive impact on my work and has been close to an obsession but it’s not at the forefront of my thinking now.” I actually think this final statement is more wishful thinking as war and peace still remained a prominent theme in ‘Grand Finale’. “Of course I continue to question social structures now that I live in England” Hofesh goes on to tell me and I wonder whether his experiences of boundaries and war will ever escape his choreography as it seems such a strong part of who he is as an artist.

Hofesh Shechter Company in 'Grand Finale', copyright Rahi Rezvani

These political themes were probably at their most prominent in his premiere ‘Untouchable’ which he created on the Royal Ballet in 2015. Not only was working with such a classical company a new experience for Hofesh, but it also reignited his feelings of isolation in the UK. “I felt like an alien when I walked into the Opera House to choreograph with the Royal Ballet. You go there and see the company and the performances but it’s not a representation of London. I’m an immigrant and I came here fifteen years ago so to go there I couldn’t help but feel like a bit of an outsider which kick started certain emotions and ended up with me chanting Nigel Farage in the musical score.” This chant often causes quite a stir amongst the audience and I wonder whether the moment has now gone. Should ‘Farage’ be replaced with another name? “People ask me to change the name to Trump but it’s the same name. They come and go these people. Farage did one thing that will affect us all for years, then he stepped away and that’s that. He changed the course of history in the UK and we do not know to what extent yet. To chant it in the Opera House made people think.” It was certainly a ballsy move, but I try to defend my second home as much as possible. I agree with his views and as I’ve said previously, I’m all in favour of art reflecting times, from whatever standpoint they come from, but where Hofesh suggests the Royal Ballet doesn’t represent an ethnic London, I sort of want to push all of the multi-cultural dancers, of which there are lots, in front of his face. I say this, however, whilst typing on my laptop in my comfortable North London home – I have no idea what it’s like to walk into such a traditional landmark as an immigrant so those emotions I’m sure were difficult for Hofesh, emotions which he chose to turn into art.

The Royal Ballet in 'Untouchable'

So what was it like to choreograph with a classical ballet company? “It was an extremely different experience. I work with my company almost every day and many of them have been with me for years. We have time to master and develop the style but with the Royal Ballet they had no experience of this movement and they are used to doing something completely different. It took them about two to three weeks just to get them connected but they got the essence and were able to change the way they moved. I didn’t know at the beginning if we could bridge the two worlds but they did an incredible show. I had to adapt and adjust and trying to translate the style was difficult but I think in the end it reached everyone.” I loved ‘Untouchable’ and felt it was very powerful. It made me fall for his choreography and admire the way he uses the body to create movement. He has such a talent for making fluid and unique shapes and I like how he often uses big group and unison dances in his work. For me that style creates a strong impact. The Royal Ballet did a great job, but no-one can dance his choreography better than his own company. When watching ‘Grand Finale’, I was blown away at the difference and how amazing it was to see his dancers live and breathe this style. So much of it seemed to be born within them and each curve of the arm or flick of the foot spoke solely of Hofesh and his world. “The dancers in my company are amazing. They’re from all over the world and they are the most international group you could imagine. I try to find people who are humble in the way they perform and can connect to something deep inside them, without having the ego or bravado that you often find in the ballet world.” It fascinates me that Hofesh is adamant that the humble dancers are those who can depict the best stories. If you watch his choreography, it won’t go unnoticed that he likes his dancers to move together, in unison, almost stripping them of their individual personalities. Ironically, this seems to be the best way to actually see the real dancer on stage. You can learn more about them when they are together than when it’s a solo. I like his rejection of the ego and bravado which have no place in his style of choreography. “I like that my dancers are introverted and that we just observe them. They are simply human people and that’s what tells the most interesting story. Seven of my dancers have been with me for ten years. Some of them are from a balletic background and others less so but we all grow with each other and there is a level of understanding between us.”

The dancers in his company express what he has to say so well, but I wonder how much input they are allowed to have during the creating process. “I have a vision when I start but my dancers are involved and I learn a lot when creating with them. We have a lot of conversations and improvisation sessions to help them develop their own existence within the movement. Sometimes they create, but I steal a lot from them. They are sculptural and create with their bodies. They are the art and it’s very important for me that they feel fully connected with it.” I think sometimes choreographers can get a bit caught up in the process of creating and may regard dancers simply as bodies who do what they’re told. It’s similar to fashion designers who view models as clothes hangers. It’s so nice to hear how Hofesh views his dancers and the respect and awe he has for them. He’s a clever man and is also aware that he needs them as much as they need him. Their existence as a company is strong and I’m happy to learn that they have taken ‘Grand Finale’ on tour.

Hofesh Shechter Company in rehearsal for 'Grand Finale', copyright Gary Copeland

I have to admit that I found 'Grand Finale' a more uplifting and positive direction for Hofesh and when I tell him how I admired this side to his work, he seemed genuinely humbled and pleased. It’s a heartfelt response and one that he seems happy to give. I wonder whether this is also because, after years spent justifying himself to audience members who can’t warm to his work, it’s also nice to hear from the fans. He tells me that the process of creating ‘Grand Finale’ was not an easy one. “I wanted to push myself and the way in which I create. I wanted to have moveable sets which I had never done before but it had always interested me. It was a very long and complicated process of creation but there was an ambition to create something layered so I needed to look at it deeply. It took a year to create it, half on my own and then the rest was working with the dancers. It took a lot of time and I find it difficult to explain the making of it but it’s important to know that if you have that ambition you need the tools to create it. I know I’m privileged but whoever you are and whatever dream you have you just need to go for it.”

So what’s next for Hofesh? Has he reached his peak with ‘Grand Finale?' Has he found his golden mean for his choreographic style? “If I knew where my style was going I would be so bored and would have to stop. I’m curious about working in film, theatre and other art forms but I’m also still curious about the power and purity of choreography. I’m working through life like I’m in Wonderland, I pick and try and change. I don’t want to do the same thing again and again. I feel like I find things in new projects and that’s the essence of the future of what I do. That’s what I’m looking for - I’m trying to avoid boredom!” I like how he compares himself to Alice wandering through Wonderland and trying different things. Hofesh is an explorer and wants to soak in everything that surrounds him in life. It’s this curiosity and inquisitive character that will always keep him on our radar. Like it or loathe it, Hofesh isn’t going anywhere, and thank goodness for that.

Thanks to Cliona Roberts PR, Fionna McPhee, Thomas Holloway and Hofesh Shechter